I was going through the Xeto specs and noticed that we have power factor units listed as “%”. xeto spec
I understand that some people view power factor that way, but I believe it to be incorrect.
Power factor is the ratio of real power/apparent power or the cosine of the angle between voltage and current. Cosine always produces an output -1 to 1 (not a percentage).
Wikipedia says: "power factor is by definition a dimensionless number between -1 and 1."
The international standards groups IEC and IEEE both use -1 to 1.
IEC uses the decimal format (0.80) in its standards example
IEEE also uses the decimal format (0.866) in its standards example
Using "%" for power factor is also inconsistent with the units database (unit db) where we have:
-- dimensionless --
power_factor,pf
I also took a look at how 4 building submeter companies handle this:
Schnieder Electric: it seems that this may be a source of the percentage issue. They allow a number between -1 and 1 or as a percentage from -100% to 100% (ref)
I recommend that we update the spec for power factor points to either not include a unit or use the existing "pf" unit.
Rick JenningsWed 13 Nov
Hi Keith,
Thanks for feedback.
I agree we should have the power factor specs default to being in the range of -1 to 1 without units. I mistakenly used the "%" units when I made those Xeto specs and I will make that change.
While we are on this topic, do the items below make sense?
Angle of voltage and angle of current specs have default units in "deg" and may be negative. (Note: Sometimes in practice this angle is referred to as leading or lagging.)
THD of voltage and THD of current have default units in "%" units in the range of 0% to 100%.
Voltage imbalance and current imbalance are measured in "deg" units. (If so, then I also need to make updates for this)
THD = Total harmonic distortion
Does anyone else have feedback on these ideas?
Stephen FrankThu 14 Nov
Agree that PF should be unitless
Angle is typically expressed in degrees, but in theory could be in radians; is there a way to set a family of units ("angle" units) rather than just degrees?
THD can also be unitless but is typically expressed in percent; recommend normalizing on percent
Voltage and current imbalance (or "unbalance") is expressed in percent: see this explanation of the math
Rick JenningsThu 14 Nov
Hi Stephen, thanks for the feedback.
We will update the PF specs to be unitless.
As of now we model the imbalance and THD specs associated with voltage and current using percent units and probably we will keep it that way. I have not dealt with voltage and current imbalance before and appreciate the explanation.
Let's defer to Brian on if we can set a family of units rather than just degrees.
Also, feedback from others on these topics is welcome.
Keith Bishoρ Wed 13 Nov
I was going through the Xeto specs and noticed that we have power factor units listed as “%”. xeto spec
I understand that some people view power factor that way, but I believe it to be incorrect.
Power factor is the ratio of real power/apparent power or the cosine of the angle between voltage and current. Cosine always produces an output -1 to 1 (not a percentage).
Wikipedia says: "power factor is by definition a dimensionless number between -1 and 1."
The international standards groups IEC and IEEE both use -1 to 1.
Using "%" for power factor is also inconsistent with the units database (unit db) where we have:
I also took a look at how 4 building submeter companies handle this:
I recommend that we update the spec for power factor points to either not include a unit or use the existing "pf" unit.
Rick Jennings Wed 13 Nov
Hi Keith,
Thanks for feedback.
I agree we should have the power factor specs default to being in the range of -1 to 1 without units. I mistakenly used the "%" units when I made those Xeto specs and I will make that change.
While we are on this topic, do the items below make sense?
THD = Total harmonic distortion
Does anyone else have feedback on these ideas?
Stephen Frank Thu 14 Nov
Rick Jennings Thu 14 Nov
Hi Stephen, thanks for the feedback.
We will update the PF specs to be unitless.
As of now we model the imbalance and THD specs associated with voltage and current using percent units and probably we will keep it that way. I have not dealt with voltage and current imbalance before and appreciate the explanation.
Let's defer to Brian on if we can set a family of units rather than just degrees.
Also, feedback from others on these topics is welcome.